Complicating my life further...

Tuesday, July 04, 2006

Not minding my own business...

As i'm sure many of you have heard, this week a 15 year old girl got engaged. As if that is not obsurd enough, the guy she got engaged to is suppossed to be 17.

How bizarre is that. Now there are all sort of the usual "maybe she's pregnant" rumors, and all of those malicious, and possibly true whispers. Usually I would never give a second thought to one of those stories. My usual reaction is; " oh well, there goes another kid screwing up his/her life." This time it is different. I know the kid, know the family. I was actually her counselor in a camp a few years ago.

She is the sweetest, cutest kid ever. I was shocked to see that she was on engaged.

It's a shame.

15 is too young to be married.

posted by Rachel at 8:00 PM

31 Comments:

  • Wow... can you give more info, this is the first I heard about this... was it a shidduch? Is she happy to be engaged? How did this come about?

    By Blogger FrumGirl, at 8:39 PM  

  • a shame do you said?! it's a murder. her life is finish before it even begin.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:11 PM  

  • A- that sounds like Paedophilia to me.

    B- How could her parents allow this?

    C- How absolutely riduculous to assume that a 15 year old is mature enough to get married?

    Where is the outcry? where are the Rabbanim?

    I guess that I'm so emotional about this because my daughter Asparagus is 15 and I would literally gun someone down if they forced her into marriage now.
    Has the world gone INSANE??????

    By Blogger kasamba, at 2:10 AM  

  • When you knwo someone it's always harder to shake it away.
    I agree that 15 is way too young.

    By Blogger Pragmatician, at 8:36 AM  

  • 15 is so sick! i feel like to throw up. how horrible. it feels like a death sentence. I am so upset that something like this even exists! oy! this is really happening?

    By Blogger chaverah, at 3:47 AM  

  • eh. no big deal. if we didnt live in this society (ie another time in history or another place on the planet) it wouldn't even get a mention.
    so, does that mean there is a problem with the society we live in? hmmmmm

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:00 AM  

  • I'm going to have to go with random.bochur on this one... well said, my boy!

    By Blogger Unknown, at 4:03 PM  

  • Frumgirl- from what it sounds like, it was her boyfriend, and she wanted to get engaged, and they figuired, what the hell, she's already got a boyfriend, lets let them get married before they do something wrong. How many of us had boyfriends, or knew guys we would have married in a second, when we were 15?
    Anon- I totally agree, there is no future in a relationship like that.
    Kasamba, A)technically they are both underage, but it is horific. B)I have no clue why her parents allow it- no normal sane parents would allow it, you would never dream of letting asparagus get married- right? Cause you're normal!C) No clue- I guess they all figuire, lets clean it up before she sleeps with him. There happen to be worse things than that.
    Prag- I agree, if I didn't know her- I wouldn't care (as much)
    Chaverah- the whole problem is that she wanted- we don;t let children do whatever they want. There is a reason for that.
    Random Bochur- I happen to not agree. Yes, maybe in Russia, 50 or 100 years ago it was OK. This is America, and things are different here. There, there may have been an actual need for marriage at a young age, to keep them safe, for financial reasons, and it was, as you say- socially acceptable. It is not anymore. In light of that- there must be some odd factor here.

    Tim-Kid, come on. You seriously think it's OK, becuase people have done it?

    By Blogger Rachel, at 5:40 PM  

  • Yes, actually, I do. I also think that if Hashem felt this girl was not "old enough" to get married, then He wouldn't let it happen. Or maybe she's not old enough... maybe this is a test for all of us... If the chassan and kallah are not being forced into it and if both of them feel that they are ready for such a commitment, then I don't think it's our place to judge whether it is wrong or right.

    By Blogger Unknown, at 8:02 PM  

  • TK- you obviously don't have a teenage kid!

    Levels of maturity have dropped rapidly after the world wars you can't expect a child to deal with marital issues at such a young age. you can't even expect her not to change her mind in six months, but by then the damge is done.

    I know myself that at the age of 17 I thought I would give up all my worldly goods and live out the rest of my life on a communal kibbutz. (Then at 20, I only wanted worldly goods- oh, just joking)
    As people mature what they want out of life changes, and as parents we can't allow our kids to narrow their options too early on or they will just resent us later for not having done our parental duties by deciding what is best for them.

    By Blogger kasamba, at 1:15 AM  

  • kas, you're right, I don't have a teenage kid, but I fail to see the connection. Whether or not she's mature enough really isn't an issue at all. This isn't a matter than any of us really should have an opinion on. She's not sinning, neither is he. If we think they're too young, then someone go talk to the parents about it so they can put a stop to it. But saying over and over that she's too young and immature isn't going to solve anything. If Hashem did not want this to happen he wouldn't let it happen. Everything happens for a reason...

    By Blogger Unknown, at 3:15 PM  

  • Hey, this is the way I see it. Better for her to be married and starting a family in a somewhat structured setting, at such a young age, with the support -both emotional and I'm sure financial- of family, friends and community, then being a 16 year old single mom, shunned and rejected by everyone you know and love.
    I'm sure it isn't a black and white situation; I think we’re missing some technical information. It's impossible for us to give it a proper analysis without knowing what the whole picture looks like.

    By Blogger vintage jeans, at 5:02 PM  

  • TK- I never said she was sinning, I just think that her parents will have a lot to answer for if she reaches the grand old age of 18 and realises that she has made a huge mistake. Hashem gives us the resposibilty as parents to guide our children to do what's best for them even if it may not be what they want.

    Vintage jeans- Either she is doomed to live out the rest of her life with a decision she made at 15 or she will be a divorced single mom. Or she might be happy m(?). I'm not pointing any blame on the girl, she wants what she wants- what I can't grasp is what kind of unfullfilled life is a teenager living that she wants to grow up so quickly?
    It's not the norm and it's certainly not normal.

    By Blogger kasamba, at 3:41 PM  

  • asparagus, my point was not that everything Hashem allows is a good thing, but that whatever Hashem allows is for a specific reason and yes, in the long run, we will see that everything Hashem does IS a good thing (even a 62 year old having a baby and a 15 year old getting married).

    By Blogger Unknown, at 4:19 PM  

  • kasamba, then let her parents do the guiding... maybe they see something in her that none of us see. who are we to say that simply because she is at a certain age she's not ready? we don't know her.

    By Blogger Unknown, at 4:20 PM  

  • let me rephrase that ending... "we don't know her AS HER PARENTS KNOW HER."

    By Blogger Unknown, at 4:21 PM  

  • There is so much to comment on here, and unfortunatly, due to my having spent the entire day at an amusement park, very little time. Many people have made extremely compelling arguments, but to sum it up, WAY TO GO KASAMBA AND ASPARAGUS, I agree completely with you.

    Tim, while I usually agree with your point of view, I really feel strongly that you may be seeing a side I don't agree with.

    Lets face it, aside from the fact that at 17 Kasamaba wanted to live on a Kibbutz, I wanted to be a poet, and many other people had unrealistic goals, how well did your parents know you at 17?

    Most 17 year olds are distant, moody, and keep to themselves. Try and find me a 17 year old whose parents REALLY know her, c'est impossible! Really.
    Also, God gives us choices. He lets bad things happen, things that hurt people, and cause them pain. God gives us a choice, and a chance to screw up our lives. He does not control it, he simply knows the outcome. HE may pull some strings, and usually helps us along, but there are times where God lets us make our own messes. MY opinion.

    Vintage, I agree we are missing some vital info, and therefore it makes it hard to judge, but supposing she is getting married because she loves the guy, and she is not pregnant, then where does that lead us. The kid, will inevitably have a kid in a year, neither she, nor her husband will have even completed high school. The parents will give them some money here and there, as long as they still follow their rules, and once they try to run their lives as they wish (which is undoubtably why they got engaged/married in the first place) the parents will cease to support, and you have kids with kids, with no one to turn to. It's not a piece of fiction, it's all been seen before.

    I siad it once, and I said it again, LET KIDS BE KIDS.

    Life is hard enough, taxing enough, and as it is, most of us grow up faster than we need to. It doesn't have to be even faster.

    By Blogger Rachel, at 8:22 PM  

  • ***(clapping)

    By Blogger kasamba, at 3:53 AM  

  • By the way TK and VJ, I didn't mean to be personal- I hope that I wasn't!
    You are both right in the sense that since I am not the girls mother I have no right to judge, which I don't.
    I do sincerely hope that Bezras Hashem this girl will be happy and be able to create a Bayis Neeaman, whatever her age.

    By Blogger kasamba, at 4:27 AM  

  • frum, but she's not 17... she's 15... there is a HUGE difference... there's obviously nothing else to say on this subject matter so I'll leave it at that. (I'd just like to say thanks to all for the good reading material that got all of our minds working -- whether we agreed or not. speaking our minds is never a bad thing. yay!)

    By Blogger Unknown, at 10:16 AM  

  • oh whoops! didn't see that kasamba had written to me as well -- even if it was "personal" it's fine... we all get personal when we're voicing our opinions... afterall, that are OUR opinions... thanks for the debate :-)

    By Blogger Unknown, at 10:17 AM  

  • fbt: your post was too long. i think they passed a law about not writing posts that long. my fingers hurting from scrolling.

    thank you.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:09 PM  

  • Random, as I recall, this is my blog, so in light of that- I believe I can post as I please :)

    I was trying to make a point, and it happened to be a lengthy one.

    By Blogger Rachel, at 3:38 PM  

  • its good to recall that its your blog. could you imagine... one day you forgot it was your blog and then you started posting on another blog. or someone else started blogging on your blog.

    i was having a little laugh. what do you think i am.. some kind of blog police. HALT HALT stop tying! its the blog police.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:48 PM  

  • LOL- LOOOOOOL... well if they are ever hiring for blog police, they should hire you!

    Yes, I knew you were kidding.

    BTW aren't you suppossed to comment on the topic being discussed?

    Can you comment pl4ease, what do you think of getting married at 15?

    By Blogger Rachel, at 8:12 PM  

  • my comments above:
    "eh. no big deal. if we didnt live in this society (ie another time in history or another place on the planet) it wouldn't even get a mention.
    so, does that mean there is a problem with the society we live in? hmmmmm"

    i love quoting myself. noone else will.

    theres a lot bigger problems facing society today. consider the issue facing our seniors. it also concerns the middle-aged but i think its not facing them. i think its turned sideways.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:28 AM  

  • FYI- HE'S 19... I went to high school with him years ago.

    By Blogger Nemo, at 4:41 PM  

  • hello i dont totaly aggree with this event but let me give you the facts: she is 16 and he is 19.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:00 PM  

  • I agree! This is totally absurd. What has our society come to? Why are we screwing up our kids?

    By Blogger ggggg, at 8:00 AM  

  • Sorry i've been so long in replying. Due to the overwhelming response of the corerect age, I would like to exlain something. While I am glad that the guy is older, thanks nemo, I still stand by my former statements. 15, or 16, as we are now told, is still too young to get married.

    Just because there are bigger problems today, does not mean that we should forget the little ones.

    By Blogger Rachel, at 9:21 PM  

  • An engagement between a nineteen year old boy and a sixteen year old girl may certainly sound interesting, and will have a tendency to bring certain ideas and issues to the fore of one's mind.

    But keep in mind that we are instructed by Hillel (Pirkei Avos 2,4) "V'al taddin es chaverach ad shetagiah li'mkomo" - and judge not your friend until you stand in his shoes. Commentaries go on to point out that no matter how close two people may be, no human can ever know and understand completely what another is going through. All this even when one is aware of all the pertinent circumstances. It is for this reason, they explain, that Hillel's instruction frbids one from ever judging another. Ever!

    I'm not going to try to justify anything, but please read the following story. It is true, and I lived through it two and a half years ago.

    I had a cousin who everyone used to talk about -behind her back of course. She was lazy. She would make her husband do all the work around the house after getting home from a hard day's work, and sit on the couch complaining that she was tired. Can you imagine? Tired from doing nothing all day!

    Then during the last month of her pregnancy with their sixth child, she went into hospital with sudden chest pain, and three days later, I stood at her bedsid as she returned her sould to its Maker.
    The surgeon said she had had a weak heart since birth, and it could have happened at any time. She never even knew that she had a third daughter!

    Moral of the story:
    Dont judge!
    Ever!
    Because you just never know.

    By Blogger Dr Sooll, at 8:59 PM  

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